What Nobody Told You About Mustard: A Pope, a Secret Recipe, and a 5,000-Year Lie!

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Hey everybody, it's Nancy May and Sylvia,

lovely once again with another fabulous episode of Family Tree Food and Stories.

Before we start, please like and subscribe and share the show with your

friends and your family because you never know what kind of conversation

is gonna happen around your next table.

And this show just might be one that you wanna start having a little bit more

chit chat with over that cup of tea, or maybe that extra slice of pie or cake.

today we are talking about delicious, spicy species.

Spicy, spicy, yummy, golden mustard, right Sylvia?

Oh, that's absolutely right and you know, I can just hear them now.

If you get quiet enough you can hear the three of 'em talking and that

would be mustard, mayo, and ketchup.

And you know, the bossy.

One is and

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Yeah, this the mustard right.

But yeah.

Tell us about the toy story.

I mean, I love the toy story idea

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: well, I love this.

So if the refrigerator was like a toy story or a toy store, then mustard

would be, well, the one that was alive and jumping, and I think there would

be a lineup of ketchup, which would be sweet and agreeable and adorable.

And mayonnaise would be the smooth operator, kind of like the

berry.

the berry white of condiments, and then we have, as you said, the sassy, the

classy, sassy, I'll call it mustard.

That gets to the point real fast because you're just gonna stab a

fork in that or stick a spoon in it.

I know, and it really does remind me of that movie Toy

Story because it's like all the toys came alive in the dark and these

guys come alive in the dark in that.

Mustard is like the king.

It thinks it's the king, and it cuts through all the richness, adds, contrast.

and then, you know, we're, we're following that sharp little seed

through history, through memory, and right back into our kitchens,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: and mustard shows up everywhere.

It shows up in ballparks and backyard

Mm-hmm.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Sunday ham especially all the new ham, all well

now, all the new hams, but all the new types of mustards that are out there.

It's like every entrepreneur has come up with a new mustard.

I've got a few of those later on and deviled eggs and it doesn't really

demand a lot of attention because it is quite loud in its own self,

Sure.

Yeah.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: But it makes everything taste just a

little bit better, I think Mustard.

yeah.

Well, let's start with Mustard Seeds.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Okay.

Mustard seeds.

they say is just this, a whole new picture of where it actually came

from because it's not just a tree.

And you think of, first of all, where are they?

You.

I don't think about where mustard actually comes from, right?

But it grows in the ground and it's relatively small plant,

and it's actually part of the cabbage and the broccoli family.

So.

Your mother or your dad, or this is talking to kids now, or even your spouse

says You're not eating enough greens.

You can just open a jar of mustard and say, well, here's

to you, I'm eating my mustard

Yes.

Squirt it down your throat.

That's right.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: right.

Yeah.

So you have green stalks, bright yellow flowers, and as those flowers

fade, you get those thin little pods.

They're kind of brown little pods.

I was looking at pictures of them.

You crack them open.

And inside are the seeds, and they're grown in Canada,

India, Europe, in northern us.

Now they mentioned some about prairies.

I can't imagine prairies in India or those places.

So it must be a real adaptable plant, uh, that does that, and, and makes it.

And so it's, it's just amazing tiny seeds

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Have you ever seen a mustard seed?

just in pictures.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Oh.

So, you can actually buy them in the store in like in the, in the

spice there, and they're very, they almost look like small little bbs.

Very

interesting.

And you think of what do you do with them.

But, they're fascinating because they're a little hot until they're

broken actually, they're not hot at all until they're broken and crushed

And put

in liquid.

Yeah.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Yeah, absolutely.

And that's when the chemistry sort of happens and they come sharp

and things clear your sinuses well.

that's also wasabi, but that's a different kind of mustard.

It's not like the mustard in the plant.

That's a root thing

Yeah, I use pepper, but yeah,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: you're, a Spice woos

I do, I sniff pepper.

okay, so there's different kinds.

Yellow or white seeds, which are milder.

Then you have the brown ones, which have more bite, and then the big

daddy of 'em all are the black seeds, which are the most intense

and show up a lot in Indian cooking.

There you go.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: And they're also known as an

anti-inflammatory properties.

They have all sorts of medicinal properties, which I think is rather

fascinating that we don't even think, or I don't know if, if anybody

thinks about it, but at least not now that mustard is a medicine.

Mm-hmm.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Like mustard packs that our grandmothers used to

do and hear about stories like that to draw out colds and flues and things.

But, it was a, an ancient remedy for many, many things and drew out, toxins.

Yeah, it's got, vinegar and it's got all the

kinds of things that you need.

Now I I discriminate against Mayo.

Okay, because I've bought into the mist that Mayo's bad for you and I, after

we did the show, I'm really not so convinced, but I always favor mustard.

Like I'll put mustard on stuff.

Well, it adds a little flavor.

I also do, because it has turmeric, Well, turmeric is added.

I thought it was part of But it's actually added to mustard to make it more

bright yellow, and isn't that amazing?

So, And the American producers added turmeric, which is

a known anti-inflammatory,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Yes.

Well, Egyptians place mustard seeds in tombs, and the

Greeks wrote about them too.

And the Romans mixed the ground seeds with grape juice, which was called.

Mustum,

gives us the word mustard, which

is really kind of interesting.

You know, honestly, we don't think enough about the history of our foods

and where it all comes from and how it turned into the things that we love

today, but that's sort of a byline.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And then it went from court to the common table, but it started out where?

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Mustard came into existence well before the

18th century in France, but where we think of Dijon, but that's when

it became very fancy and quite

prestigious La Maison Maille.

In fact, I have a. Jar of that in my fridge and I brought

it out and put it on my desk.

Yeah, seriously, why We're recording.

you really, you ordered it from there or did you pick it

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: No, I picked it up at the grocery store.

Yes.

Listen to you.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: that

was founded in 1747.

It, well, if you're going to get a Dijon, you might as well get

the Dijon, which is from France.

France.

I don't know if this one actually says France and it probably says made in China.

But No, it says made in Canada.

You and Louie Louis 15th, and look at

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: right.

but, Louis the 15th was very fond of it.

And all the other French aristocrats made Dijon quite famous.

And obviously that's where it all came from, became a little

bit more elegant, shall we say.

And of course, Napoleon.

Napoleon loved, loved, loved mustard.

He was sort of a mustard fanatic.

Mm. Did he think it would make him grow taller?

If

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: dunno.

that works, I'll do it.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Suck on a mustard seed, right?

Uh, but hey, I love the quote from the family.

The right condiment can truly define a meal.

That's probably kind of true, you know, but sandwiches are so

much better with stuff on 'em,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Oh, a little mustard mayonnaise together.

Combo gives it

a gentle zing.

totally Yes.

But it is quite elegant and it's even pretty, I mean, it adds a lot of color

to foods that might otherwise be dull.

Yeah.

And mustard ha it has that purpose.

it brightens heavy foods, preserves flavors, makes taste come alive.

And the recipe.

Now, I think there's a lot of spices that I, I don't include here, and maybe

you can add a story or two on that, but vinegar or wine and salt and spices and.

Turmeric in the really yellow brands that we have here, but it's

an earthy flavor that turmeric has and, and you have mustards.

and so you don't know what's in it if you order it from La Mason Mailler,

'cause it's gonna be very exotic.

What does it have in it?

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: it'll tell you what's on the

ingredients real quick water.

Mustard seed, Halal.

vinegar, salt, citric acids, Sodium metabisulfi te.

It's in tiny, tiny type that's, I can't say it, made by Unilever, so

Unilever used to be a Dutch company and now it's a British company here.

Big, big, big producer here in the United States.

But yeah, kind of interesting.

Oh yeah, it is.

so, so there you have it, but when we say elegant, we don't mean decorative.

It was very intentional to create this mustard with a purpose.

and so there you have that.

and then, it became part of our everyday life.

It got democratized.

Ooh.

I knew a big

word there.

It's

cool.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: I wanna give you a little, backup if that's

okay, because, one of the Pope Johns (Pope John XXII) in the 14th century

and he apparently, loved mustard so much that he created a Vatican

position called the Grand Moutardier du Pape, (the grand mustard maker)

Can you believe that?

So, a papal mustard

I love that.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: right.

That's how important it is.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: It is how important it's, but Mustard has

family roots, lots of family roots.

Yeah, it does.

I did a little work on this one, Plochman's.

you, are you familiar with Plochman's?

How familiar are I?

Just

get I, I I, Grey Poupon, well, Plochman's was started in Chicago by a

German, immigrant, and they patented.

I know you've seen 'em, the little barrel, little plastic barrels.

Yeah, that's, that's Plochman's.

And so I went to their website and it's bright yellow and it's like

the best mustard in the world.

And they won mustard contests.

I mean, there are such things as mustard contests.

and then I know your English by by heritage.

There, I got it.

Coleman's in England strong, distinctive.

part of the national identity, and I don't know that much about Colemans,

but the small producers, that's one of the things about Plochman's,

it's made by small producers.

' cause, you know, mustard like everything else, people are actually doing it at

home and, they're making their own stuff.

And so artisanal ones where the, , small batches, you know more about.

What is in the food, what has gone into it doesn't have any of those

long names of chemicals, you know?

So, mustard's the same thing,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Well, I do know a little bit about Colemans

because , they're an English company, or were an English company, . And what

I found out, they stopped production in around 2010 in their original location.

And then they were purchased by Unilever.

So Unilever owns M and Coleman's now.

and that was originally owned by the family from when it was started back

in, I think it was the 17 hundreds when they first started making that.

it's amazing that we have this affinity for.

So many of there are different condiments along the way, but that's another one.

And speaking of family, I've gotta tell you, there is one mustard that I

absolutely will fight for when I see it in the grocery store, especially

if there's only one jar left.

It's a mustard that is created out of, Clearwater, Florida.

That I discovered down here, and it's called Terrapin Ridge.

Well, it's made by Terrapin Ridge Farms, which was started by a family, and then

it was bought by another entrepreneur, a woman, and her business partner.

And so it is a series of mustards that have been originally created

by this family in different flavors.

And the one that I love is called Smoky Maple Bacon Mustard.

Ooh, that's got everything.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: It's delicious.

Like we said before, it's an artisanal,

Mustard.

There's, there's tons of 'em around, . And I've got a story,

if I may, about my friend Sasha.

Sasha Chalif actually Alexandra Chalif, but friends call her Sasha.

So every year around the holiday times, Sasha makes a batch of family recipe.

Mustard, and if you're lucky enough, you'll have one of her delicate

little jars bestowed upon you.

Well, one year I got one of those.

She only makes a small batch.

It takes her two, almost three days to make this batch of mustard.

That's how complicated it is.

But I asked her the story of this Family mustard recipe if she would share the

recipe and she says, Nope, it, we are sworn to secrecy from her grandmother who

nearly died without revealing the recipe, but her grandmother was born in Yalta and

lived in Odessa and used Coleman's mustard powder as sort of the base for this

and used to make this special mustard, which has a little bit of sweetness.

She said, yes, there's some sugar or honey or whatever it is in there, and

she would pack it up and send it with her husband, Sasha's grandfather, as a

soldier in the Russian and Japanese war.

What a history.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: I know, right?

This mustard became so popular with her grandfather that he traded it

for things that he needed, and he was always writing home to his wife

to say, could you send more mustard?

Because his soldier friends loved it.

Wow.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: It has been passed down through the

generations now Sasha has passed it to a daughter-in-law, which she was a little

reluctant to because it wasn't by blood.

then she swed to secrecy, and now her daughters and granddaughters have it.

and I also learned that John Oliver the actor or the comedian.

Yeah, he made mustard for his wedding.

So he has a mustard recipe too.

. sylvia lovely: I think that's a fascinating story, and I'm

sure there's many of them.

Boy, I'd love for people to share those kind of things because one of the things

when you were talking about Coleman's and did you say it was bought by Unilever?

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: It was bought by Unilever.

Isn't that bothering, sort of bothering people

that these big companies buy this stuff and then and I don't have any

proof to this, but you know, people are starting to look at labels and you

know, because you can get really used to just very plain and ordinary stuff.

And sometimes it worries me that it's like we're being conditioned

to just.

Get

along with, you know, playing an ordinary.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: The question is whether the recipe is changing.

I don't know if you saw recently, but there was a big to-dah or La-Te-Do-Dah

with, Reese's peanut butter,

Yeah.

That was huge.

Yeah.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Now.

, I would mind testing, putting a little terrapin ridge, smoky maple bacon

butter on a Reese's Peanut butter cup,

Oh, you're killing me.

That sounds so good.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Doesn't that sound good?

But apparently the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup family founders are upset

because they say that, um, I think it's Hershey's that bought them, changed the

recipe, and Hershey's, says, no, they didn't change it.

I, I don't

People are like, it tastes different oh yeah,

I've forgotten about that.

But yeah, it was a bruhaha.

Well, you kind of think that, which is why people are going back to artisanal.

If they don't make it themselves, then they can go online and

you can find nearly anything,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: wouldn't you spend a little bit more for something

that you thought was extra special?

Yes, I will always do that, but I feel for families 'cause they don't

have the leeway I do or the flexibility.

but that's something that's real important to me is get something.

I don't eat a lot, but I wanna eat good stuff

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Well.

You don't smear like a gallon of mustard on your hamburger

or hot dog, I don't think.

But

Oh yeah,

I had mustard for lunch on a hot dog

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Did you?

Okay.

That was the, that

Ferment.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: story, so

Yes.

There you go.

And I don't have any interesting ones like you, so there you go.

but yeah.

so Mustard has kind of like entered the ring and it's a cast of characters.

probably the most famous one is Frenches, And it's just that plain old bottle.

I think that's what's in my fridge.

And you've got fancy ones in your

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: I've got fancy ones.

I have more mustard than I need to know what to do with.

And remember when, I guess it was honey mustard first came out.

Oh, I love that.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Honey mustard were, there was some

cranberry honey mustard up north.

I can't find that down here, but they were in these small little jars and

sort of the artisanal type of mustards.

And then the big brands got into making honey mustard.

It just, it doesn't taste the same.

It really doesn't.

So,

um, I'm so a little mustard lonely

Mustard, lonely.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Mustard lonely,

Go see your counselor about being mustard lonely.

And what about gray Poupon?

Now that's what I have in my fridge.

That's what I put on my hot dog today.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Yeah.

I'm not a mustard on hotdog person anyway, so, but I'm not, I, we call, we

call 'em hot dogs, peppers and snouts,

so I'm not a big hot dog.

Eat.

As soon as Bob told me hot dogs are consisting of peckers and

snouts, I stopped eating hot dogs.

I'm done.

Well, I hesitate , to get hot dogs because of all the

stuff about, their processed food.

So I buy mine at Whole Foods and they're very pure.

They, I look at the ingredients ' cause hot dogs taste good, you know,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: I agree.

I

yeah, yeah, yeah.

So anyway,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: But he's very particular about his mustard on, calbassa.

Calbassa is a big tradition in their family.

And so you have to have Well, it's um, calbassa.

Yeah,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Calbassa is like a Polish, a

long polish, so sausage and

so considered a long polish hotdog.

okay.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: That sounds kind of bizarre.

Sounds good though.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: I should edit that one out, but I won't.

But it has to be that grainy mustard, that sort of German Polish

mustard that has the seeds in it.

Oh, fascinating.

Yeah, see,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: That's what it's gotta be, a

I'm so ignorant.

You are educating me.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: I'm not educated,

Oh, so anyway, like we said, home cooks are making their own.

And here's kind of a recipe, if you wanna hear one,

choose your seeds and you said you can buy seeds.

You've seen them on the

market.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: buy the seeds in the grocery store.

Yes.

choose from yellow, white or brown.

Or if you're really brave, you can get the black ones and you soak

the seeds in vinegar overnight.

Blend the soaked seeds in additional vinegar and water, add salt and other

spices and store in the fridge in a sealed jar to enhance the flavor.

And I'm not sure where you get the turmeric or whatever.

I suppose powder, you know, you can get

turmeric

powder

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: turmeric in the grocery

in all kinds of ways.

Yeah.

So I suppose from a powdered version and a health food made at home, right?

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Yep.

add a little sugar or

honey and just let it sit and marinade.

You have to actually cook and heat it.

So that was something I learned from Sasha as well.

But speaking of cooking and heating, and shall we, heating things up,

let's take a little break and we'll continue with our species spicy mustard

in just a minute.

Okay, Sylvia, so it's time for the Great Mustard Tasting Challenge.

You ready?

Have you done a lot of tasting of different mustards?

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: I've tasted enough mustards.

Yes,

Yeah.

you've got that special palette girl.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: I might burn my palate with mustard, but anyway.

So the classic yellow, what would you consider the classic yellow flavor to be?

Frenches, it's too bland for me.

I've kind of grown to the point where I need spice.

so Dijon, how about Dijon?

How is it different from grape pond?

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Well, first of all, it's different color.

it's a little bit more, I'd say gray versus that bright day glow yellow.

So to me it looks more real.

It's got that a little bit of greenish, grayish look, I guess.

Which one??

the di I'm looking at the millage Dijon on my desk right now, so it has sort of,

it's yellow, but it's kind of a, a gr like I said, there's a green tinge to it.

A slightly different,

that's kind of interesting.

poon looks like

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Yeah.

Well, it's the

grayish.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Gray Poupon is a Dijon mustard.

There you go.

Oh, it's just a variety of

Dijon.

Oh,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: name, different brand

there you go.

See?

Okay.

And there's whole green,

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Yeah.

do you make whole green mustard?

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: I dunno how you make it, but it

has those little grains in it.

And then I'm looking at the Terrapin Ridge Farms again because I also brought

that out on my desk and . it's more of a rich, not golden, but brownie

yellow and it has those little mustard seeds in it a little stickiness.

So I would say, 'cause it's got the maple in it.

Probably some honey in it as well.

It's, but it's, the consistency is a little bit more like a, um, like a thicker

honey and it's really, really good.

It's also got turmeric in it and apple juice concentrate,

which is really interesting.

Well, then there's Honey mustard.

Honey mustard.

And I love it On a salad bar.

They have honey mustard now, almost every salad bar.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Then you can get some mustards that

just really have a hot kick to it.

I, that's a little too much for me, for sure.

But everything seems a little different now.

And you can go into the grocery store and there are miles and miles and miles of it.

Actually up north there were tons and tons of mustard.

When we first moved down here, there was Gray Pupon and the

store brand and that was it.

And I thought we had just moved to a food desert,

But then you start looking around and there's all kinds

of artisanal stuff everywhere.

you go into these places and, it's some really good stuff if you look around.

anyway, we go into how it's made.

We've already talked about that.

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: The health conversation, it's very good for your

health and if you just need a little extra, Way to get rid of that cold.

You can certainly put something under your nose

Yeah.

Yeah, so it's interesting if you think about the ketchup, Mayo and mustard.

Mayo and mustard seem to be more related to one another because,

, ketchup sort of stands alone.

, It's that red thing standing in the corner, but it's

probably pretty bossy in there.

But I do tend to mix mustard and mayo and , they compliment each other, so I

#82 Nancy - Mustard episode: Oh, I've done that too.

Yep.

Absolutely.

. I would call it the condiment trinity if

we're gonna get religious about it, because there is a little bit of faith

behind all of the mustard, which is a bit of a pun because it comes up in

many parables over time and as a symbol of fertility, luck and protection.

since we're in a series or the time of spring of renewal, I think there's

a lot to be said about mustard.

And the kind of spark that it gives to our family table conversation and everything

else, including the fact that yes, it's a cousin of broccoli and cabbage and all

that other good stuff, which just makes it a health food on top of everything else.

So So the next time you squirt a little mustard on your hot dog, be a little sassy

back and say, I'm making it a golden day.

Because every meal has a story and every story is a feast,

right?

If you would please like, share and subscribe our show

with your friends and family.

And if you have a mustard story, come on, you've gotta have a mustard story.

We love to hear it.

Come to Family Tree food stories on Facebook and we'll celebrate

your mustard story because.

Every story needs to have a way to continue from family to tradition,

to fork to table to generation.

So we'll see you soon and we'll hear you soon.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

Goodbye.