What Ketchup Teaches Us About Patience, Power, and Taste

Good day, Sylvia.

Lovely.

How are you today?

I hope it's a lovely day.

Oh, it's, always a lovely day if you make it that way, right?

That's right.

it's even more lovely when your last name is Lovely.

There you go.

Mm-hmm.

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But.

Today's episode is all about ketchup, Who would think that ketchup was

a serious question or even an interesting question, but it really

is a fascinating subject I think.

Sure is.

And let's leave out its cousin Mustard for a change.

Usually have to share the stage.

No ketchup.

gets to be red all over the place.

after all, we are the color of February red, like heart

red.

Heart red.

ketchup is really a test of patience.

It's a trust exercise.

It's sure got a mind of its own.

always gives us a burp when it finally comes outta the bottle saying,

Hey baby, you don't control me.

And that's, that's when, that's, that's when I get explosive.

Okay.

With ketchup, we have a, we have a strained relationship.

or the ketchup gets explosive on you right Out of the long neck bottles.

Of course we have the different kind of bottles today, but even still the

old fashioned long neck bottle, it makes you work so hard to get it out.

Which again, like you said, is one of the tests of patience.

So I guess food really teaches a lessons of.

in this case, is teaching us the lesson of patience and anticipation

being a good thing, which I dunno, sometimes patience isn't so good for me.

I know.

you know the way I see it that when I feel in a mood slow down, I

apologize to ketchup out loud, but then I also can share a few choice

words that I won't share unless you think this should get an our rating.

I've kicked the butt of a, ketchup bottle a couple of times myself,

but I think it's a brilliant marketing strategy that they had, because you really

do look for the ketchup to come out and just not come out as a blob, but it's,

Yeah.

the desire, I think.

you're gonna get it that way.

you know, either it's slow or, Have you ever had it where it

just dumps all of it out at once?

Oh, of course, right?

Yeah.

There's more ketchup than there's hamburger.

Yeah, you gotta like it, which I do actually.

I do like it.

I haven't noticed by the way that it comes now in low sodium and low sugar.

So

Did you see that it came in green?

At one point, I think it was Heinz decided that they were

gonna change the color of ketchup.

There's a whole psychology, of food and the color of food, or whether we

want it or not, and I know fried green tomatoes is a big thing in the south.

Mm-hmm.

I can't wrap my head around a green tomato and eating it.

It's just not my tomato jam.

you are missing something, let me tell you.

That is so good.

But fried red tomatoes are just as good too.

But I gotta tell you, green ketchup just won't cut it with me.

No.

Uhuh.

No, no way.

let's go back to a little bit of the history of, ketchup because

I think this is really fascinating.

did you know that it didn't start as a bunch of mashed up tomatoes

and it didn't even start in the United States or in America?

And it definitely didn't start by putting it on hot dogs and hamburgers.

you have robbed me of my will to live.

Go on.

Oh, please.

No, no.

We need you.

let me tell you a little bit about ketchup because we all have a ketchup

story somewhere along the line, but ketchup began its life as a fermented fish

sauce in 300 bc. Can you imagine that?

I mean, wow.

It goes, I guess it's bc I dunno, 300 BC was, it was well

past cave man stage, but even

this was a long time ago.

It was a long time ago before my day and age.

Anyway, it started in southeastern China as a salty, funky kind of fish sauce made

with meat byproducts, fish and soybeans.

And the whole idea was it to give it a longer shelf life, As we call it today,

but it was also used to pour all over bad tasting foods when they're out on voyages

and traveling everywhere in long faring sea voyage, all the, I mean, you think

about it, you're out on a ship with a bunch of your other friends and you got

to eat all the stored meat that's been there for, let's say two or three months.

It's gotta taste Pretty nasty and rancid, and they didn't have

refrigeration in 300 bc, but

ketchup was stuff that they just put all over everything to make it taste good.

yeah.

Yeah.

it's a kind of a, an original travel food you know,

Yeah, pre those little, packets that you get at

McDonald's and everywhere else.

Yeah, I guess you could say it was the original Road Trip Companion

lemme ask a question.

Yep.

Do you save the little packets even though you have plenty of ketchup in the kitchen?

No, I don't do it with ketchup, but I do it with

the mayonnaise for some reason.

I don't know

Isn't that weird?

Yeah.

Isn't that weird?

it's a, it's a food story.

it may go back to our deprivation ancestors or something,

it must be something to do with a hoarding mechanism.

And the other thing is, I, I catch all those little, some of it's not the sweet

and low, but the yellow sugar packages.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, yeah.

I got it.

Ketchup is kind of an endurance food runner

I call it gastronomic marathoner because it's lasted so long, and

that's kind of a perfect picture.

But let me tell you just a little bit more about.

Ketchup because it actually has a very long, long history.

Obviously it started in 300 bc, but during the 17th century, European

traders found the sauce in Southeast Asia and brought it back home with them.

And then the British Cooks created their own version using other such ingredients

as anchovies and mushrooms and walnuts.

And it wasn't this.

Thick kind of sauce.

It was a little kind of runny, which was interesting.

Then in 1726, John Knott's cookbook, the court cookery.

Can you imagine the whole court had their own cookbook, and

Elizabeth, Eli, sorry, Eliza Smith's cookbook, the Complete Housewife.

I am sorry.

I really hate that name,

but Eliza obviously wasn't a woman's libber So anyway, both the court cookery

and her complete housewife cookbook included recipes for ketchup, which were a

mixture of vinegar, regular vinegar, white vinegar, anchovies, shallots, lemon peel,

and horse radish on top of everything else with a bunch of other spices.

but, but no tomatoes, huh?

No tomatoes.

No.

Wait

Oh, okay.

Alright.

Hold on.

Hold on.

because, remember tomatoes were thought to be poisonous.

So, they didn't use tomatoes.

But around 1830, a physician in Ohio by the name of Dr. John Cook

Bennett, claimed that tomato ketchup.

Now you start adding tomatoes to the sauce

All right, now you, now you talk me off the ledge.

Mm-hmm.

I'm talking off the ledge.

Don't worry about it So he said that tomato ketchup was a medicine that

could treat conditions like diarrhea, indigestion, jaundice, and he made

it in pill form, which is crazy.

And then he sold it to pharmacies and grocery stores.

Now tomatoes are supposed to be good for you anyway.

But all that acid in the tomato, I guess is a cure off to everything.

And since we did a show on food as medicine, we probably should have

added ketchup as a medicine, right?

Yeah.

I think later on you're gonna talk about that, Lipo or some something in it.

Something in it,

yeah.

yeah.

but back to the original roots, it really wasn't an additive to improve the flavor

of boring, nasty tasting foods, which is

Hmm.

kind of interesting.

so its original job was.

Fix this.

like what we do today.

people, like my chef at Azure, cringes, when people drench his creations

with ketchup, and I am one of those,

I like, okay, I have to say this quietly.

I like ketchup on a steak.

Oh, I do too.

there you go.

I'm in good company.

So I have, to admit though, in my refrigerator, I have

ketchup that's sugar free ketchup.

Mm-hmm.

Oh yeah,

And somebody once said, that must taste really nasty.

' cause Heinz has sugar in it and everything else.

I think it's a better tasting ketchup than the regular ketchup.

This one is, it's called, the primal brand, primal Ketchup.

It's very, very good.

Yeah, I would think it would bring out the tomato taste more.

and sugar kind of tend to alter taste,

and sometimes that's on purpose.

right and, and ketchup was really never meant to be delicate.

It was meant to kick butt and remove the taste of stuff.

So you're right.

You might just eat a spoonful of ketchup and go

Mm-hmm.

you know, tomatoes, were not, as you've pointed out, were not a big thing or

even trusted in the early states.

And so, that's really hard for me to believe 'cause they're so

good for you and they're so tasty that, gosh, who started that rumor?

So it took a while.

yeah.

Have you ever tried making ketchup?

Never.

I'm not gonna do that.

I'm not gonna do that.

It's too easy to go to the grocery store and we don't use it that

much now if my grandchildren are over here all the time, they drench

everything in ketchup, like ruins their meal if they can't have ketchup

and Oh yeah.

And And what about mayonnaise?

So mayonnaise is another

Not so much.

Not so much.

No,

you know, one of the great debates out there is

do you put ketchup on a hot dog?

And that's a raging debate.

And that's, yeah.

So it's kind of interesting.

my hubby does.

I don't,

a, my dad.

talk about tradition.

I guess My dad used to make his own salad dressing

mm-hmm.

when we were kids, when he was feeling, I guess.

Food feisty.

my dad was, my dad was a pretty much meat and potatoes kind of guy.

Not a lot of fancy stuff, but he liked mayonnaise and everything

all on, on top of everything like you did with your ketchup.

So he would make his own French dressing, which was basically nothing more than

mayonnaise and a lot of ketchup and a little bit of Worcestershire sauce.

And he'd mix set up and put drench it all over everything.

So Ketchup really has a good weighted.

To be in addition to other things.

I guess drenching it on other things

so he made it kind of into a. A, salad dressing,

kind of a Russian dressing

like a, but yeah, Russian or French, I don't know what that is.

Yeah.

That kind, that has that kind of reddish tension to it Hmm.

because you've got the white of the mayonnaise.

Have you ever made mayonnaise?

No, and I, I don't typically do mayo, so you know, very

rarely, unless I do eggs or something and I do deviled eggs and I, I might, but

it's a fun experiment to do.

I've, you haven't made mayonnaise.

I would suggest doing it.

It's really simple.

You just take a couple of egg yolks, you throw 'em in the blender, you wear 'em

on up, and you slowly, slowly, slowly add like a drizzle of, of oil into the blend.

And you'll see how it whips up into this cream.

And then you just add a little bit of lemon juice, a little bit of lemon

juice, and then dry mustard or Dijon mustard and a little salt and pepper,

and voila, you have your own homemade mayonnaise, and then add ketchup to it.

Then you've got your dressing too.

yeah.

you know, that's kind of interesting because they tell you that if you're

really wanting to get away from ultra processed foods to make your own

salad dressings in your own mayo, because if you look at that ingredient

list on the back, it's some pretty weird sounding stuff, you know?

so I've started doing some of my own salad dressing, but I gotta get used to the

bitter taste or I gotta add more honey,

I have to say.

There's a little bit of bite to it, but, it is a lot easier

to go to the grocery store and.

I'm kind of a,

Mm-hmm.

I I have discovered down here, down south, it's a south southern thing.

. Duke's

Oh, Dukes.

I was gonna say Dukes is popular here too.

They say Do Dukes do it.

but anyway, moving on.

Did you know that the first known tomato-based ketchup recipe was

published in 1812 by a Philadelphia scientist named James Mease

and as we mentioned tomatoes were still viewed, with suspicion by

some in the US and Europe, they have slowly gained popularity.

Yay.

the love of ketchup, really took off after the Civil War, and we've talked

about how picnics were popular during that time as families gathered together.

To watch the battles.

I can't imagine wanting to do that, but I need to be entertained , they

didn't have Netflix and crime dramas.

Okay.

And all of that good stuff, so,

I'm gonna guess a ketchup was a lifesaver in more ways than one to some

of those soldiers in the field, especially those being, oh God, it's so gruesome.

And

watching that sry, I can't, I just can't imagine, and if they wanted to eat

good, I mean, they worked so hard in the field, so well in the field being

shot at that they had to have ketchup to spice up the picture a little bit.

yeah, so I can't imagine, that, but anyway, it was a use of,

ketchup and red, and it's kind of red.

very red.

but you know what?

Always got me caught.

Up as a kid how to spell it, and where'd they get that name?

and I'm not alone.

Apparently for a long time there was a lack of consensus on how to Spell it.

K-E-T-C-H-U-P, which eventually became something of a joke.

So the domestic chemist from 1831 counted three popular spellings.

That was K-E-T-C-H-U-P, the most known, kaupp, C-A-T-S-U-P, and Ka.

Which I like.

C-A-T-C-H-U-P.

And so these three words indicate a sauce the author writes, of

which the name can be pronounced by everybody, but spelled by nobody.

I love that.

All right.

In line with the Times, the book notes that ketchup is the product of the

liquification of salted mushrooms, and it makes no mention of tomatoes.

What is wrong

with this schizophrenic condiment?

Yeah.

we already know that you like ketchup, but, I can't even imagine why it would

be fishy ketchup to begin with anyway.

I know how weird.

Anyway, it's survived, hasn't it?

It has,

In one form or another.

let's, take a, a, quick break, but before we do that, I wanna

share a little story about, lost recipes, which is important because

part of this is what we're talking about in many cases of, our book.

But I got a note from one of our local neighbor who bought

our book and said, you know.

I got a call from my niece the other day who wanted my recipe for chicken, and

she had tried several different recipes and they just weren't Kathy's recipe.

So Kathy said, that's pretty easy because I've never written it down.

So now she's written it, down, so her niece and others will

have it for years to come.

But.

This is a ketchup story.

My mom had a recipe for some sort of pork chops that include french onion

soup and ketchup, and I remember those as a kid, and they were so good.

You mean together?

Oh yeah,

Hmm.

she pan fried the pork chops and then added french onion soup.

I don't know whether it was Campbell's mixed with the ketchup or something,

but it was a saucy kind of thing, and then just cooked them on the stove top.

Those were like one of my favorite meals, and I never got the recipe.

And I can't figure it out.

So it's a lost recipe that I've got I'm glad that Kathy's not

losing her recipe for her family.

let's take a quick break because there's a lot more in store about

ketchup and hopefully not lost recipes, but we'll be right back.

So we're back Sylvia.

How many ways do you like to use ketchup?

let's see, french fries, although I'm not addicted to it the

way my grandkids are, in steak and any kinda meat, although if it's a really

good sauce, I can leave the ketchup off.

and then you mentioned meatloaf, I think at some point

Meal?

Yeah.

Do you like it on eggs?

I think that's

disgusting.

Ketchup on eggs.

no.

But, the home fries maybe?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's not a breakfast thing for me.

So anyway, yeah, I'm pretty standard

did you know that the most popular ketchup brand today is Hinze?

I think that's kind of obvious.

Oh, that is kind of obvious,

Although I do like my primal non-sugar but that a whole history of

Heinz company is kind of interesting beyond the fact that so many families have

made huge businesses out of food and food.

Family food recipes, and this was kind of the same.

So he's company was founded in 1876 and became a major force in popularizing

the condiment of ketchup, and it eventually became an American staple.

I can't remember not having ketchup in our refrigerator as a kid.

Do you?

Oh no.

It's always been there.

Yeah.

I mean, it was a staple.

Mm-hmm.

So the name, and the original Long Neck bottle

brings back so many memories.

unfortunately you have those squeeze bottles, it's just not the same.

I know as that glass bottle,

yeah, I love the fact that Heinz is now, this year

coming up on its birthday.

we have to put a candle in our ketchup next time we eat it,

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

but, so here's a little factoid.

Did you know that the 57 number 57 branding was actually a marketing

ploy rather than a factual count of the items in the product?

You know, I had never really thought about it.

So it's not six seven, huh?

No, now it's not six seven, it's five seven.

I think we need to do a whole TikTok thing on six seven with Hinze.

But anyway, Henry Hinze, was a bit of a backpedal on the story, and he

said actually that 57 was created by the combination of his two favorite

lucky numbers, five and seven.

There you go.

He thought so he figured from a, this is the market over the years,

I had spent my early years in advertising and my husband called me marketing slime

because darn those marketers, you know, they way of manipulating our brain.

I think Henry Hinze was one of those as well, but he thought that the number seven

has a psychological influence that anybody at any age can actually understand,

like kids even understand the lucky number seven, it's not three, it's not.

Six, seven.

It's five and seven, so that was rather fascinating.

And then he put it on the classic long neck bottles.

Yeah, and I, know that there's kind of an engineering

sciencey piece to this on those bottles.

according to the company, this embossed number serves a functional purpose.

We've all done it the optimal.

Tapping spot on a glass bottle it works.

It really works

miles per hour.

I mean, yeah,

I

love that discovery Hey, have you heard people at a party?

people you don't know.

And you'll say, this happens a lot at horse events because

there are people from everywhere.

And you'll say, tell me where you're from.

Oh, I'm a Heinz 57.

It means they're a mix of a lot of things.

Or your dog.

is a Heinz 57.

Yeah.

I tell you, it's brilliant marketing in the long run because

you always think of ketchup, but I've never tapped it on the neck.

I always smack it on the butt.

then I guess you like the waiting game, don't you?

I, I guess

No.

I've thrown it against the wall, but I mean, no, not really.

I'm

not that bad.

Catchup story.

All right,

Okay.

So growing up my mom's best friend, Carol Kocka, oh my God.

Long story short, but on the side Carol had contracted pancreatic

cancer and, and later on in life, and she eventually passed away.

I never heard my mother cry.

My mother called me and told me that she died, and all I heard was my

mom crying on the other side of the

phone.

It was just heartbreaking, but I don't wanna leave on a sad note.

I wanna share a, a positive note because Carol lives on in many memories

with me, and I used to babysit her kids and she would always make the best

meatloaf And it was always slathered with tons of ketchup on the top.

Oh yeah.

It was amazing.

I have never been able to replicate quite that taste that I think

something about who makes it too

Mm-hmm.

Oh yeah.

It's always about that, right?

and the memory that it creates.

that was a staple in our house.

And meatloaf and ketchup, exactly the same thing, and I don't know what it

is, but before they started making soda, have you noticed how sodium,

low sodium, Condiments or Campbell soup don't taste quite as good.

They're awful.

Yeah.

And I think somehow that saltiness in the tomato with she kind of

thing filters down into the porous parts of the meat, the hamburger

meat that you put all that together.

That's my theory.

I'm not a food scientist, but that's what I think happens.

So it permeates and then it's juicy.

It's just wonderful.

I love

It gives a little, crunch to it too when it's cupped.

that top is, is crunchy.

Oh, yes.

I love it.

I love it.

You know what's interesting about ketchup in,

general is that we probably have some memories about certain ketchup.

the brands that we like or where we got the

more being at camp, right?

If camp didn't have the ketchup, then you couldn't eat camp food for sure as a kid.

But, here are a few other uses for ketchup that you may not have thought about.

First of all, I had a family member who thought of.

Ketchup is a vegetable.

I will not share who that individual is because it will get me

in a boatload of trouble.

But no ketchup is not a vegetable,

Yeah.

the school systems certainly agree with that.

right?

Depends upon it.

You can actually clean metal with ketchup.

Did you know that?

No, I don't think I'm gonna try that.

I'd be, I'm gonna have to try it.

I haven't tried it.

We'll let Bob try it.

But if you're out of metal, Polish, Polish and you, just say you've got some

silver, some old grandma, silver, and it needs to be polished up, grab some

ketchup and thanks to the acidity, it will actually shine up copper and brass.

And I think silver too, like a pro.

But please rinse it off before you put it.

it back in your mouth because I don't know, maybe the

Also, my only question here is you got, you

gotta actually polish things.

Yeah, I always try and put it in the dishwasher, hoping

the dishwasher will make the thing,

There you go.

and, you know, ketchup's bright red color wasn't always so innocent.

Oh, this, this is gross.

Some manufacturers used You know, I'm surprised people didn't live beyond 40.

Right.

coal tar.

Yeah.

Coal tar is that COAL folks, to achieve that perfect primary red

color, imagine what was in it, gets its color today from real tomatoes.

Now I've not looked

What is coal tar?

Do you know what coal tar is?

no, I mean, I'm

I think of, I think of cult tar as the stuff that

you put on, road tops when

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it is.

I think it is.

It's black and icky and But you know, I haven't looked at the ingredient list.

Like when you talk about making your own, it might be worth it because

I'm really big into avoiding.

Ultra processed foods.

I mean, why not eliminate risk where you can and, and in the book I'm reading

about the history of cancer, they think that's kind of the new frontier of cancer

research is the relationship to food.

in all.

I think there's a big deal.

There's a big deal on

And what causes what and all that.

and during World War ii, which dictated a whole lot of our interesting traditions

today, ketchup wasn't just for burgers.

It was a culinary lifesaver for soldiers.

Its strong flavor.

Again, helped mask the taste of blend military rations like the meatloaf.

I think the sodium

soaks down.

Yeah, ketchup to the rescue, one tin can at a time.

And it was easy to carry and it, it.

kept well.

So I think that's kind of cool.

Have you ever had one of those, or, or CI guess

they're C rations, not K rations.

Have you ever had one of those?

No one either.

So little side detour in the story.

up north when they had some hurricanes that just hit and we, our town was out

of electricity for, I think the longest was almost two weeks without electricity.

It was a long, long time.

The town was, and I guess it was FEMA too, was handing out the

military rations to families.

Based on how many people you had in your household.

So Bob hoarded them.

We still have

I bet, I bet he gets those packets too.

He is probably

got a

whole

the whole package, he says you have to try it.

I, I am not trying it.

I try to taste it one, and first of all, it has something like

25,000 calories in one packet.

It's

Oh

I'm not eating that.

Uhuh.

But the cookies are always good and they have some ketchup in there too.

But, it's kind of interesting that those things survived.

No wonder the ketchup survived in those things because I think they really needed,

it was pretty nasty and salty and anyway.

here's some other interesting things about ketchup.

Did you know that we consume about 300 million pounds of ketchup each year.

That's roughly 13 billion servings and about 71 pounds of ketchup per person.

I know I don't eat that much

Somebody is getting a lot of ketchup.

'cause I don't even come close.

I don't think I even buy two bottles of a and a course.

maybe be two bottles in the course of a year Anyway, When you think of it from

an economic perspective, economics of food, that's about 12 million tons of

ketchup at a value of worth $900 million.

I'm gonna go make a bottle of ketchup and see if I can sell it.

Mm-hmm.

if you.

Right now, in this day and age, say it's non-processed, it's

got, blah, blah, blah, and you

Yeah.

I don't think it should be called ketchup.

I think it be, should be called ka ch instead.

That's funny.

Oh, that's funny.

Yeah.

So

anyway, one more thing.

Do you know that, the episode that we did on food and medicine, that ketchup was

now sold in the 18 hundreds as a medicine.

So I think that we really should go back to maybe, like I said before, adding

ketchup as medicine in that other episode.

we'll put a link into the show notes because well.

If you can't hear me now, I have a cold.

So, but the reason why it was considered a medicine is apparently ketchup contains

phytochemicals and lycopene, which has been attributed to reducing cancer risks.

And the other thing is that, you can consume it like a tomato juice.

So

I wouldn't sure I would, I wouldn't consume ketchup like a. Tomato juice

or sauce, but I guess you could put it in a bloody Marion vodka probably

takes care of some of that too.

There's something about Lyco, lyco li lycopene.

yeah, I can't which way it goes here.

That cooking the tomatoes.

Actually releases more of it, or it's not cooking them.

Yeah, it's one or the other.

'cause I, I wish I could have thought about looking that up

because that's kind of interesting.

I think it's that cooking actually releases more of that.

So your recipe of your mother, putting ketchup in and cooking might be a good

we ate a, we, a lot of ate of it was, let me say that straight.

We ate a lot of ketchup, soaked with onions.

Mm-hmm.

Pork chops.

anyway, kind of interesting, but whatever,

you can, it floats your boat.

You can load it on your burger.

They don't count it as a vegetable, so you might wanna add something,

onion, something, I don't know.

onions is also onions in your sock.

Also, another good remedy according to grandma.

I did not know that.

cooking tomatoes actually makes the lycopene release.

Usually cooking kills stuff,

know.

That's why we need to confirm that.

I don't know.

Somebody out there let us know.

I have to say that anytime I cook tomatoes, it's usually in a

tomato sauce for spaghetti or lasagna

or something like that.

I'm always add adding like a bottle of red wine, so tomatoes, a little

lycopene, a little grape juice.

I think it's probably doing its job really

Yeah, you haven't lived in the south, so you've had

fried red tomatoes and corn meal.

I like fried reds more than I like fried greens because they're tender oh gosh,

Probably juicier too, right?

and I make up my own recipe.

You're supposed to put like flour and cornmeal together and

blah, blah, blah.

But I, and I know it's a binding thing, but I just lather them, know, put

'em through, like, make 'em moist and then they catch the, or an egg as, as

a binding agent, and then you can dredge them and then you put 'em in.

And of course, the little rumbles that fall off the tomato are really good.

And then I put Parmesan on top and it's,

Ooh, that

that.

Yeah.

Simple, simple, simple, simple.

I'm simple.

I think the moral of this show should actually be good things come to

those who have a little patience can wait for the katchup to slow down to the flow.

Of 0.28 miles per hour.

I don't have that patience, but I've got as you get older,

Well,

But anyway,

yeah.

most of us have probably converted to the plastic bottle.

'cause I know my kids, although they got into the smacking it on the 57 and maybe

they get just a high on bottle butt too.

smacking it there.

think, every kid should have the challenge or

be given the challenge of.

Taking ketchup out of a long neck bottle and not putting your knife down it.

Oh, I know I've done that.

So, if you have a great story or memory or experience about

Katchup or any other kind of condiment, we'd love to hear your story.

go to podcast.family tree food stories and click on contact.

there, you can send us a note and we'll take it from there, And remember to

subscribe, share, and like the episode.

And never forget every meal has a story and every story is a feast.

Take care.

We'll see you soon bye-bye.