Hey, everybody, it's Nancy May co host of Family Tree Food and Stories.

And my other co host, Celia Lovely, is off stirring up some interesting

family food stories with other guests.

She'll be back in another show.

But until then, This episode is going to be a little on the spooky

side, It's Halloween, and we're excited to have as our friend and our

guest, And fellow podcaster, Leo York.

Leo is the host of, get this, The 13th Floor.

How perfect is that?

He has a few pet tarantulas.

I'd really be interested to know what kind of food you belly

up to the bar with the girls.

and his favorite, is named Pumpkin.

You couldn't think of a better name.

To start a show, go On Family Tree Food Stories with Pumpkin

the Tarantula on Halloween.

absolutely.

So with that, Leo, let's jump into the show because we talked

a little bit about hauntings of restaurants, we talk about hauntings

of barns and houses and whatnot, but there's some famous restaurants out there

that are haunted that you know about.

Yeah, big time.

Yeah, I think restaurants might be in the running for places

most likely to be haunted.

It's, it's kind of peculiar.

but, the first entry is in Wisconsin.

it's a really unique thing, the Walker House.

And one thing that stands out immediately is it was originally a cave.

And I can't think of too many places where you could have a restaurant, even

conceptually, from a cave, but what had happened in the early 19th century,

there were Cornish miners, and Cornwall in England is known for its mines, and

it's known for its pasties, which is the food that miners would take into

the mines with them, you know, these savory pies, because it was easy to

pack, and you didn't have to worry about getting coal dust on it, because you

could just throw it away the next day.

The end little bit.

the crust, I guess you could say if you got coal dust on it.

This wasn't a coal mine though, in Wisconsin.

It was, a limestone mine and they were mining out the limestone and

they brought their superstitions with them from Cornwall.

More on that in a lit in a little bit.

but eventually as this, mine got converted into a little house for the

miners, it just kept getting expanded upon until eventually it became.

a tavern slash restaurant, and it's a pretty good size at this point, and it's

made out of the limestone that, they were drawn straight out of the caves.

What's interesting about it in terms of, spookiness is a few things.

One, the co owner, Kathy Valancourt, she says that she's hired, psychics

and paranormal investigators, and they found several ghosts.

There was a fella who, was hanged nearby, legally, like, you know,

wasn't, uh, Wasn't anything

to the gallows kind of

know, he was off to the gallows.

apparently people see him, William Caffey, and he's looking for his head.

I don't know if it came off during the hanging or what, that's surprising.

there was the lady in black and presumably she helped Lincoln

ride his Gettysburg Address.

There's a little girl in a blue dress who runs up and down the

hallway looking for her room.

And my favorite ghost at this particular place, There's a cat that presumably.

Does cat things, it sunbathes, it walks around, it may not even

know it's a ghost, really, there's a ghost cat at the Walker House,

So people actually see the ghost cat

people see a cat, people see the Lady in Black, and people see, um,

William Caffey, there's been several reports of all three, there's presumably

a lot more ghosts, but those are like the more notable ones in the area,

geez, I, you talk about, ghosts in restaurants.

I wonder, Whether any of them ever sat down at a table and had

a sample of a meal with a guest

you know, that, that might be why restaurants are haunted, maybe there's

something about the social environment that's kinda nice, and, I don't know

if they can eat or not, but maybe just being around food is, comforting.

Yeah, this is, this sounds kind of crazy, but as kids, you

know, Casper, the friendly ghost, the ghost would eat whatever it

is and it would fall out of them.

What a waste of a good steak, right?

Absolutely.

Well, another weird thing about the Walker House that's very unique is,

I mentioned that those Cornish miners brought some of their folklore with them.

And in Cornwall, there's an elf like spirit, usually pretty

mischievous, and inspired a Stephen King story called Tommyknockers.

And that's what they're called, they're called Tommyknockers,

and they're known to haunt mines.

Well, these Cornish miners claimed that they were Tommyknockers, and

they would give them little offerings of their pasties in this, area.

And presumably there are Tommyknockers, it's probably the only other

place outside of Cornwall where people will say that they exist.

True to its name, the pub sells pasties and other Cornish fare, things

that Tommyknockers would like, So,

do they do mischievous things?

I mean, they're being offered food, so I guess you could say, They're

kind of part of the menu, I don't know

yeah, It's, they're, they're mischievous, and so the

food offerings are to keep things,

at bay and

calm

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Don't cause a cave in at the mines, here's, here's a pasty.

shut up and eat your meal, of thing, right?

So there's another one That we talked about, that's in Washington DC as

well, or is it Washington State?

oh, you're talking about Billy's?

Yeah, Billy's is in It's in Washington State,

and it's a weird place.

I think just alone the history, like even ignoring the ghostly

elements, is just kind of nuts.

it was originally a brothel, and that, that alone, you know, there's,

there's restaurants that were originally brothels, but this one was

presumably named after a serial killer.

So, like, why?

Like, it's just such an odd choice.

Billy is actually named after Billy Grohl, who was a serial killer.

Like, that's what they named it after.

And there were bullet holes where one of the madams, shot a pimp So

it's, it's got a macabre history.

And it's one of those places where you get a lot of different, I guess

you could say sensory phenomena.

People smell cigarettes, even though cigarettes have been

banned there for a long time.

People get

in a restaurant, that's been banned for years.

Yeah.

Exactly, but people still smell, I guess, ghost cigarettes.

And, sudden music, children giggling, and poltergeist activity, like cups

flying off the wall, things like that.

So it, it doesn't have a specific ghost, associated with it so much as Auditory,

Olfactory, and Poltergeist like phenomena, which to me, I associate those kinds

of things with more, I guess you could say, nefarious places, more malevolent

places, and this seems to have an air of malevolence about it, because instead of

seeing somebody like a figure sitting down, you're hearing and smelling and

seeing, uh, more, more activity than anything, like, again, poltergeist

activity, objects moving on their own,

That's almost more frightening if you see something, it gives you an

idea that at least you think what you see is somewhat real, but when you can't and

all of a sudden things are flying around.

That's kind of creepy.

Yeah, full agreement there.

Yeah, I'd much rather see a specter than a poltergeist.

I'm not sure I want to see any of them.

the whole idea of those kind of creeps me out, but I think we're

fascinated about the idea anyway.

And years back, my uncle was living in Maryland and I was

doing a trip down in the DC area.

And so we met for lunch one afternoon in Annapolis and we had lunch and

it was the time between the end of the lunch crowd had already gone.

And the dinner crowd hadn't quite gotten in, and there's a tavern down

there, or it's called the Middletown Tavern, and you said that taverns

tend to be the most haunted, or at least it seems like taverns.

I guess

Something about, something about history and alcohol lends

itself

The wild and crazy times at the bar.

But they said that there were ghosts there, so apparently there's a ghost by

the name of Ronald who runs around wearing Revolutionary Warrior clothing and looks

out the window and There you'll smell the smoke of the cigar and occasionally

he'll toss a glass or plate off the shelf, but after a couple of glasses of wine

with your favorite uncle and a full meal and I had to change the train back to D.

C.

I'm like, oh no, where is the, where is the ladies?

It was upstairs.

In a dark hallway, in the creaky, eee, you know, the creaky stairs, eee, eee,

eee, I'm thinking, oh my god, I can hear the ghost right, right, right now.

So I'm going up the stairs, and there was a big hall upstairs that

was closed and dark with the chairs that were lined up against the wall.

It was probably some event hall.

But it was dark, and I was alone, and the ladies room was down the hall, and I don't

think I peed so fast in my entire life.

That should be in the Yelp reviews for that place.

That's right, go to the ladies room, pee fast.

Get out of there.

I didn't see anything, and I drank no more water, just in case I

had to use the ladies room again.

So that was my ghost experience.

But you have another one as well, too.

yeah, this one is very old.

Early, early 19th century.

And it's got one of the strangest names, too, and it's called Ear Inn.

And it's in New York City, But during Prohibition, it was a speakeasy, and it

managed to stay open after Prohibition, too, and that alone is just really

impressive, because generally speaking, places that serve alcohol didn't survive

Prohibition, and so to be that old, and then to make it, you know, That far, and

then to become a speakeasy, and then to reopen, that's, that's really unique.

One of the cool things about it is it was used for a lot of different things.

it was obviously an inn based on the name, and it was a bar and a speakeasy,

which is just an illegal bar, but it was also used for all sorts of other things.

it was a place to gamble, it was a brothel, it was a doctor's office.

just a whole bunch of different uses, which is probably why it stayed that long.

But one of the most notable things about it is it has a very old ghost.

And that, is somebody that they call Mickey.

And this was a place where, a lot of sailors would gamble and drink

and eat and just enjoy themselves.

And sometimes it would even be a boarding house for them, so they would stay there.

until, short leave ended, and as a result, Mickey here is a sailor, and

he's been waiting for his clipper ship to come back for over a hundred years.

And so, not only do you have a ghost, but you've got a ghost with a name, and

a ghost with what appears to be like a past and a personality to go with it.

So how did they find the name?

Did they make the name up for them, or?

is iit they know who this guy is.

I'm assuming they called him Mickey, and I've

got a theory on that, actually.

but.

It's clearly not really his name, but he's wearing, like, old sailor clothes,

and he's just sitting there and waiting.

So that's the story behind it, just observing him.

This is a sailor waiting for the ship to come back, and, you know, he doesn't

know that it's been a century, probably.

but as for the name, I have a theory, and I don't know this for sure, but

there is a, drug that was really popular in Prohibition, In fact, it's one of

the things that killed Hank Williams.

and it was, it was called a Mickey.

And you would hear this, especially in old movies, people would

make it almost as a thread.

It was called Mickey Finn.

And it was named after a guy who actually would incapacitate people and rob them.

That was what it

I didn't realize

for.

drink.

Yep.

there was a bartender back in the day and, he ran a Lone

Star Saloon, uh, back in, Chicago.

And And the, when was that, like, I want to say late 19th, early 20th century,

but because he was knocking people out with this material, chloral hydrate.

That's why it got that name, and like, yeah, if you watch old movies, that

happens all the time, where people talk about slipping somebody a Mickey.

So, I wonder if, uh, I wonder if people would see this guy, and the

prevailing theory was, Oh, you're, you're seeing things, somebody slipped Joe

Mickey, and it just stuck as his name.

That's my theory, but, you know, I can't

substantiate it,

with a

lot of data.

There we go, you know.

I love that.

speaking of ghosts and restaurants, the Old Union Oyster House in Boston, I guess

Boston's kind of known for ghosts anyway.

You've got Salem that's not too far away around the corner, but

think of Old New England homes.

My parents had a house down towards the Cape that, was known by the

locals as Oldfield Farm because the Oldfields had it beforehand.

And my mom told me after they had left that there were at least two

incidences where she saw this white smoke come out of their bedroom

closet, pass over their bed in the middle of the night, and out the door.

So she thought it was Mrs.

Oldfield who loved to garden.

But there was definitely a creepy feeling on the upside of that

house in the middle of the night.

Something about going to the bathroom with me and ghosts, but I would get up

in the middle of the night and I would never open my eyes to go to the bathroom.

I'd feel my way down the hall and think, okay, I hope I don't feel anything either.

Oh, Yeah,

but the old Union Oyster House is supposedly haunted in Boston and

that's got kind of an interesting history.

It's known as Well, they think it's the oldest restaurant in the United

States where it was established in 1826,

and it was first a dry good store.

So it's been a couple of things too.

It was the Continental Army paymaster headquarters,

and then after that, and Oystermen, because oysters were big in Boston,

they did the oyster fishing.

I think actually think oyster fishing is stronger in Norwalk, Connecticut today.

It's one of the bigger oyster areas.

But, it was Hayes Atwood that, or Hawes Atwood, that was the oyster

man who built the famous curved bar.

at the restaurant, and you can see it.

Anybody who's been to Boston, you'll see it in the front of the door, which big

front windows that they've got, And as you enter the door, and Danny Webster

used to hang out there and eat oysters, so I don't know if Danny Webster's ghost

is there, but, I guess they were trying to be virile eating their oysters.

But, the other story is that they say the ghost of JFK haunts the restaurant,

Oh, wow.

so that's kind of cool.

he hangs out in a, in his favorite booth called the Kennedy booth, and I

thought, well, jeez, you know, if you hang out at the booth with the Kennedys,

do you hang out with Marilyn, too?

Yeah, interesting.

They must have good oysters if you're, you're willing to like, not only uh,

not let death stand in the way, but to, to be killed in, I think Texas,

he made his way all the way up.

Right?

I never thought about it that way.

Well, anyway, there's a lot of stories about restaurants that are haunted and I

don't think about food that's haunted, but certainly restaurants that are haunted.

There are tons of others that are out there, but those are the

ones that are the most famous.

There's the White Horse Tavern in Rhode Island.

It also has one.

And, do you know about the Cascades Restaurant at the

Stanley Hotel in Colorado?

Ah, I know about the Stanley Hotel, but not

the restaurant in particular.

Well, maybe it's the hotel that they hear piano music and children

running around, but they said it was the Cascades Restaurant, so maybe

Interesting.

Well yeah, isn't the Stanley Hotel, isn't that what inspired the Shining?

I'm pretty sure.

Was it?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, like, I've heard stories from multiple people about, at that place.

It's, it's definitely, um, there's something malevolent and

strange going on at that place.

if it's The Shining, it wasn't really a friendly ghost, it

was kind of a creepy, nasty ghost.

Almost certainly.

Well, Speaking of ghosts and restaurants, do you have a favorite

meal that you like on Halloween?

I'm not a picky eater, but when it comes to Halloween, I gotta

have something chocolatey, and I gotta have, something, uh, autumnal,

you know, like maybe butternut squash or something like that.

But, the restaurant.

Pretty close by to me has, Chocolate Creme Brulee, and I, it's a

favorite around this time of year.

I'd say my biggest challenge on Halloween is to stay

away from the Halloween candy.

Uh, I'm sure.

Mm.

but other than that, to me the fall is clam chowder, whether it be

New England Or, Manhattan clam chowder.

And I didn't know about this, but just before we left Connecticut and moved

down to Florida, there's something called Rhode Island clam chowder.

Have you heard of that?

know, I'm interested.

So Rhode Island clam chowder is actually a clear broth.

Yeah.

no cream, there's no tomatoes, there's nothing in it.

So they just use the clam juice and lots of tomatoes and potatoes,

and I guess that's, that's it?

That sounds pretty good.

Yeah,

Yeah, unfortunately I'm landlocked, but I, I do like, shellfish,

so yeah, that sounds good.

Well, on that note, I'm going to ask one last question.

So, I am not a tarantula aficionado.

Sorry, Pumpkin.

But what does Pumpkin like on Halloween?

uh, Umkin, the weirdest thing about her personality, and I didn't even

know it was a personality quirk until, I started getting other tarantulas and

realized like, oh, this is just her.

she is so weird about taking a bath.

She takes baths all the time, and, And it's very rare at this point for me to

check in on her at night and not see her over a, I give her water out of a little

bottle cap, like twist off bottle cap, and um, usually she'll take a bath in it and

if, if it's empty she'll just stand over it and wait for me to fill it up, so, I,

I guarantee she'll take a bath Halloween night, that's, that's kind of a guarantee.

Well, we'll give Pumpkin maybe a spa night on Halloween

and let

we go.

A little candle, tarantula candle, a little, I don't know,

maybe a piece of pumpkin pie?

Ha, ha, ha.

of tarantulas having personalities, but thank you for sharing that.

And

I hope that you and Pumpkin have a wonderful Halloween and

maybe share a bite together.

Sounds good.

Thanks so much, you too.

That's it, friends.

We're going to come back with more Family Tree Food and Stories, but

before we go, please check out our book, My Family Tree Food and Stories.

There'll be more information and details on that shortly because

we are launching that or it's releasing on November 1st, next week.

So stay tuned.

There's a lot more in store.

We'll see you soon, and we'll hear you soon.

Thanks.

Bye bye.

And ciao!

Bye.