Hello everybody.

This is Nancy May with Family Tree Food and Stories.

Sylvia is off cooking something up or dishing it out.

you gotta watch Sylvia every now and then 'cause she dishes out

a lot more than she cooks up.

So, Sylvia, I know that you're listening, but.

just put the muffs on the ears or maybe you put the drumsticks in the

ears and we'll go forward from there.

But in any case, we have some really interesting guests here today.

With me, we have Heather Dyer and Erin Walker.

And Heather and Erin have a podcast as well called Three Kitchens Podcast.

What they do in their show is they discuss with a guest,

which I have been on their show.

some of the favorite meals that you've made over the years

and they share that recipe.

Mines were mine.

Mines mine was my mom's special chicken, or I also called it the birthday

chicken, which I recently found out.

My sister has a recipe for, and it's called Oriental Chicken, I'll stick

with birthday chicken on that note.

Erin and Heather, thank you so much for joining me here today.

It's great to have you here on the Family Tree Food and Stories podcast.

Well, thanks so much for inviting us.

Thanks for having us.

This was gonna be fun.

We

know anytime we gotta tell some stories.

delicious, fun.

Now I have to say that when I quizzed you both separately, you

said you didn't have any food

traditions.

That was.

Well it's kind of funny that we both said that actually.

I find that fun.

it was talking to you both like mirrors in two separate conversations

that Did you plan this beforehand?

Well, I find that, I'm going to, you.

Whatever, stab a fork in that one.

I think you actually do have traditions and we don't necessarily

know that they're traditions.

'cause there's things that have been fun that we've done over the course

of our lives or that we do with our kids or our family members that, don't

get recognized as true traditions.

like bringing out grandma's plate always at Thanksgiving or Christmas

or Easter but you all are campers.

Mm-hmm.

As in CAMP, like all year round camping.

Hmm.

Well, maybe Erin Camps year round.

I

I was gonna say I'll camp year round, but I know that Heather's got a hard stop.

Yes.

my idea of camping is at the Hilton.

That's not camping.

Nancy.

I did camping in Girl Scouts as a kid I did that.

I thank you very much.

That's enough.

Nope.

Too many bugs, spiders, and cold and yeah, no, don't do that.

but

I might sleep under the stars in my front yard once.

Okay.

Okay.

See, I have a trailer, so I like to have my nice bed.

I like to, be outta the elements.

I like to turn on the heat if I need it.

I like to have the AC if I need it.

I'm like, you know what people call glamping, which is like glamor camping.

That's more my style of camping.

I would join you, absolutely, Heather.

yeah, so I'm there.

Definitely.

and then Erin, you are the hardcore, right?

I mean, you are a hardcore camper.

Like put your food on your back.

I don't know.

Is there an animal out there that puts the food on their back?

I don't know.

But, we'll figure it out.

I like to sleep in a tent.

I like to be out in the back woods.

So we had a previous conversation Heather, we talked a little bit

about camping and even just family trips that you have had as a kid.

Let's talk about some of those because I thought that was interesting and I think

a lot of us will remember childhood, I'll say excursions with parents.

Parents would pack us up in the car and we'd go to Lord knows wherever.

They always knew where we were going, and we would just yell, are we there yet?

That's so true.

Or I'm hungry.

We don't know where we're going, but are we there?

I just wanna be wherever it is that we're going.

my parents would always pack like a load of food in the car.

There was all sorts of junk food.

probably the only time that we really were, I wouldn't say allowed junk

food, but it was sort of the norm.

The cookies, the candies, the, well probably not candies, but

cookies and cakes and everything else that they could possibly stuff

in there, including the fruits.

But you had some other things that you did with your folks and that you remember

with your siblings while out and about.

Well that traveling, pulling a trailer was how my family spent

summer vacations when I was a kid.

And, we would load up everything in the trailer and then we had an old

pickup truck that we would all pile in.

And I don't remember having a lot of snacks in there, but we

had books to read and games and whatever, and we would sing songs.

I'm sure we drove my dad absolutely bonkers.

now as the driver in my family.

I can just imagine what, like that would've just driven me nuts and, 'cause

my mom would join into, she was our girl guide leader and so all of three girls

and my mom all sing in our girl guide songs and playing word games and punch

buggy and spot and license plates.

I spot like all those things that my dad just drove and I'm sure he was like, oh.

he was probably the one saying, are we there yet?

Give me another coffee.

yeah.

Where can we stop next so these kids can run around?

And he didn't have noise canceling headphones, I guess.

Hey.

No, you got nothing.

Nothing to save you.

You can't even put a podcast in your ears.

Like, that's what I do.

when we drive, we all just listen to our own things so we're

not arguing with each other.

But when we stopped at different, places along the way, whether we

were camping there or just pulling in for a break, my parents especially

loved a good historical site.

And as I'm sure there are in the US across Canada, there's loads of them.

And you'd pull in, it might be a. A small little exhibit or an interpretive

trail with the signs and sometimes they had where you press the button

and listen to someone tell you

Oh

what you're looking at.

Remember those interpretive

like Audible today, right.

Yeah.

It'd be this scratchy little speaker and it would rock in 1825, so and so,

you know, it would be like this fun

little.

Story.

Oh, And you had to read every single one.

You had to stop at every point.

which also drives my kids crazy now that my husband and I do that too.

It's like, yeah, I get it about the bird.

Do we have to read about every bird?

Yes, we do.

and, and when we would stop at these places, often there's a little gift shop.

And I don't know if you are familiar with these, but there usually was little jars

filled with those sticks of hard candy.

Remember, they were in different colors.

They were swirled kinda like a candy cane, except they weren't a cane.

They were just sticks.

beer one.

The root beer and the lemon.

I remember.

That like sticks in your mind, right?

Yeah, I remember that one too.

And, so we knew we were gonna stop.

So we would get talking amongst ourselves, what flavor are

you going to get this time?

what do you wanna try be?

Or maybe there was a color, but we didn't know what the flavor was.

Be like, well I'm getting a blue one.

'cause what?

What do you think it is blueberry?

Or is it like that weird thing?

People call blue raspberry, but nobody actually knows what that flavor is, you

it's the one you always wanted to give away to somebody else, right?

Well, it looked pretty and you thought it would be good, and then

you were like, oh, I should have stuck with the root beer, or whatever.

The thing was, I love the cola ones, so we would have these, you know, we would plan

what candy stick we were gonna get at, you know, the upcoming historical site.

And that always just made it a little.

Something to look forward to, something fun we didn't typically have.

It's not that we didn't ever have.

It's kinda like what you said, Nancy.

It's not like we didn't have candy in our lives, but it wasn't like a regular

Right, right.

thing and that was like a whole stick.

So that was like exciting and you would get it to a fine point.

Try not to stab yourself.

And, the cellophane wrapper somehow always managed to not get down far enough and

you end up like chewing on the wrapper at

You have to work it down off the thing.

Yeah.

It's a whole production.

Yeah.

So I guess I didn't realize until we got chatting about it and you asked me

a bunch of questions that that actually was a tradition that we had when I

was a kid on these long family trips

Now you're out and about with the rv, camping with your family.

Now, when you stop at roadside attractions or road stops, do you see those

same sticks as well in those places?

I don't know if they're even around.

I.

You know, I don't think that I've seen them the way we used to.

Like it was like a guarantee they would have them, and I

don't think we see them anymore.

And when you do, it's like, oh, look at that.

It makes you feel old and nostalgic, right?

Definitely old.

Yes.

Or it always brings back a fond memory thinking, oh my gosh, I remember those.

And the cola or the root beer or the lemon was my favorite.

And somehow, it always dropped at the bottom of the car.

Never.

It never failed.

Right.

Ooh, yuck.

So anyway,

what did our moms do?

Because they didn't have wet wipes to whip out of their purse.

I

Yeah.

Just like spit on it.

Why wipe it off?

Well, you're just gonna have to wait until we get there and then you can clean it.

or eat whatever was on the bottom of the car floor.

Ooh.

I mean, you're probably like, well, it's just a little dirt.

My

five second rule.

Just.

tradition.

Eat dirt and move on,

Well, I think

that, that's the British eat dirt.

and carry on.

Right.

So, so Aaron, you know, you've got a different kind of camping experience

because you are a true, what I would call the hardcore hardy camper where

you're, you're packing your beans on your back and you're going off with

your tent, and you're lacing up your boots and trekking down the, the wooded

trails with your bear spray, hoping that you don't find smokey along the way.

That about sums it up.

Yep.

I, you know, I remember backpacking as a girl guide since you mentioned

you were a girl guide too.

And one of the trips we took was absolutely miserable.

I didn't have enough layers.

It started snowing.

I thought to myself like, I would never do this again.

But then, as my kids grew up and got a little bit older, we did go on a

backpacking trip and I, I did actually get Heather out on that one too.

Whoa,

and, uh, three of

La going camping.

yeah.

Heather was like, I'm never doing this again.

after we did our one backpacking trip, and I thought, that sucks.

I guess I'll just have to go by myself

and Yeah, that's okay.

To each their own, right?

And so I, I told my family, well, none of my friends want a backpack with

me, so I'm just gonna go by myself.

No, you can't go by yourself.

Mom.

I can't.

no.

Yeah, so my oldest son was like, well, that's kind of sad.

So he decided to start tagging along with me and now we've, done, I

think we're coming up to our fourth.

That's been just the two of us.

And, yeah, so every year we plan a trip and plan our meals, and Heather's

inspired me to get a food dehydrator.

And so now I dehydrate my meals before we head out, which makes it

a lot lighter to carry since I still have to carry the majority.

My kid is not big enough yet, Take much of the weight, although I'm

waiting for that growth spurt to come.

Right.

Just pack a little extra protein in 'em and boop, watch 'em go.

Okay, Time to hike.

Take the cans out.

Oh no, you don't take cans.

Even.

I Know, that.

So we've, started a wonderful tradition, just the two of us

heading out into the mountains and.

spending some good time together, just out in nature.

And I laugh that you're singing songs and playing word games in the car.

'cause that's exactly what we're doing on the trail.

It's, singing songs, alphabetizing.

Countries in the world or trying to come up with as many words that start with

the letter A or going through and just kind of filling that space and, so far

we haven't seen bears, although they have been on the trails we've been on.

So maybe we're just really good at not looking out into the forest,

just

being noisy enough that they, beers are like, oh my god, humans run.

well,

of those.

Once they're not so tasty.

oh, you do have to keep that chatter.

Something going.

A little bit of noise.

Right.

I'm not totally ignorant of the woods, but I I do get it.

Yeah.

So you both mentioned that you were girl guides here in the States.

They are, called Girl Scouts and camping is a big deal in the Girl Scout and I'm

presuming Girl Guide, experience as well.

One of the things that I remember is, it was as primitive as you

could get as far as camping for Girl Scouts, platform tents kind of thing.

And you built the fire and, the whole nine yards.

But one of the things that we were, told about was how to make those fires and,

and how to make the food good on a fire.

including buns and burners and making all your things.

And then, I think they called them po boys, where you'd take a, like

a hot dog in your rappa, a piece of dough around it, and then stick

it on a stick or things like that.

So it was kind of inventive cooking, I would say.

Not something I would normally eat at home, but.

Did you do things like that in your girl guide experience that you now

have maybe even brought forward today that Oh yeah, I remember doing that.

We can do that today.

Hmm.

Well, I remember doing things like.

putting an empty tin can upside down over that bunsen burner, which

we had made.

Remember you made the bunsen burners, the little cardboard and wax with

a wick, and you'd make that, and then you'd put the can over it

and you'd make pancake on the top.

Like it would just big enough

Just to pick it up for a

one

Yeah.

And it was so much work.

Like when I think back at like, that was just a. Activity that you got.

These kids, the adults were like, okay, what could we do to kill a couple hours?

Well, one pancake at a time.

Ladies, you are making your little,

right.

our leaders are probably taking shots in the backwoods behind us,

were just counting down to what's the next thing we got them doing because you know,

it was a lot of kids and a lot of time.

Spend out there without, I mean, at the time when we didn't have any electronic

anything and so you had to come up with something for all of us little kids to do.

Right.

So I don't think that's something I would do now.

That to me feels like a lot of work for not a lot of reward.

well, you got a camper, so you probably have a microwave in your camper.

So therefore you can cook them all up, put them in the freezer or put

put 'em in the toaster later on.

Toaster oven, and you're all set.

Well, I certainly cook over the fire when we camp.

we camp outside.

We sleep inside.

Okay.

So.

Yeah, I don't think I learned any great cooking skills from the girl guides, I

didn't particularly love the girl guides growing up, but like I love to cook over

the fire and I love to play with the fire while also trying to cook food.

I can be on fire duty for hours and hours and just try to get, the

perfect fire to cook, a piece of meat or to slow cook something or

to try and make breads and create an oven out of your campfire pit, or,

So let me ask you about that.

Have you actually made bread in a campfire oven pit?

You have.

So how do you go about doing that?

Because that sounds like pioneer times.

I, I mean, seriously, this is heavy duty

it's fun though.

It's.

When we think about making biscuits, you don't need it to be in there super

long, but you need it at at a high heat.

And that's something I feel like is reasonably easy to achieve

in a

fire.

Yes, I would think so.

Right.

The only thing that's hard is that your fire heat is coming

from below and in an oven, you want it to kind of be all around.

And so what we fashioned up was, if you think about the campfire

pits, they have that grate on top.

Uhhuh.

It opens and closes.

So we put a piece of tinfoil up there and moved a bunch of the coals up on top of it

so that it made this little enclosed base with coals below and then the coals above

and you just slip your little pan in there

and,

they worked great.

They were delicious.

This was a, this was not the hike in camping trip, so we did another camping.

weekend where I had my trailer, Erin had her tents.

We were in this campground together, with some other friends

too, a couple other families.

And we planned a big menu.

We have a whole podcast episode about it.

Anyone who would like to,

listen.

It's called Cook.

in the episode notes Yeah.

Yeah.

With Fire.

Yeah.

And we had a, a setup where we cooked a long, skirt steak we threaded it over

a stick and had it above the flame.

So we tried that method of flame cooking, the, thin cut of meat.

we roasted a whole chicken again.

It was the same kind of thing where it was under a lid with heat,

Yes.

around, I think it was kind of heat on one or two sides, and we had to

just sort of move the chicken a bit to

Yeah, we took the fire outside of the fire pitch, don't tell anyone.

and we cooked the chicken beside the fire pit where we had like

our main source of fire going

And then we also have, I have a, campfire Dutch oven.

So it's a cast iron dutch oven that has legs

and a lid.

And what you do is put, your coals, usually I use briquettes like

barbecue briquettes when I, use it.

And so you heat them up and you put a certain number on the bottom

and you put a certain number on top and that creates an oven.

And we did roasted vegetables that for that camping trip in there.

It works perfectly, but I've also baked cake in that.

Um, yeah, because it's what it's for.

It's an oven, so it, I mean, it works so great and you can find all kinds of

information online telling you how many briquettes for whatever temperature,

so you don't really have to guess.

Wow,

maybe, I think it's like say, let's say eight or nine.

On top and 10 on the bottom and you've got three 50 degrees Fahrenheit, roughly,

which is what you need for a cake.

that's amazing.

somebody has figured it out and made it really easy and it works perfectly.

And if you line the pot first, all you do is pull that out, eat

whatever your, and you don't even really have to clean your pot ' cause

So you line it with a foil or something like that

Yeah.

Like

a, you know, like, um.

or parchment

Parchment paper or an aluminum foil pan that fits into it works like a charm.

And it worked great with those vegetables that we roasted to have with

our chicken and steak and biscuits.

It was, yeah, that

I'm gonna have to go out and get my charcoal briquettes and try that

But there's a whole nother story besides camping because we think of

camping today is, you know, it's posh compared to probably, olden days.

camping.

And Heather, you grew up on a farm

Yes.

and did you grow up on a farm too, Erin?

No.

But I wanted to get back to the farm because camping gives you

that sort of sense of a little bit more organic life, right.

even if you are glam camping, it's not like you can just, run down

the hall to the kitchen and then press a button and voila it's done.

Not that going to the kitchen and voila, it's done.

Actually happens.

But you can still, right.

But I going to the grocery store, for you, I'm gonna say was.

Going out back and seeing what chicken mom's going to lop off the head

on, which is a little bit closer to our, our food than we're used to.

Can you share a little bit of those stories about what you remember as

a child growing up on the farm and, how it impacted your life today in

maybe appreciating food differently?

Or maybe you don't, I don't know.

Well, my mom always had a very large garden.

Like, I don't know what the measurements would be, but

probably bigger than my city lot

Oh, so it's a small field.

very large, garden behind the house.

Like it was, uh, it was a job, And, it all, the whole family was involved in

growing food and, my mom canned, froze.

Stored in the ground.

We had like a, like where the, well the, I don't know what you

call it,

they call it, a root seller,

the, water well had kind of a little lean-to building around the

motor or whatever, I don't know.

and anyway, it had a little door on it, this little lean-to sort of thing, and

you open the door and my dad, or maybe the prior owner, I'm not sure, had dug,

there was like a cellar under there, so it was a dirt cellar, underwear, the.

Um, the water well, came up and all the potatoes and onions and

carrots and like root vegetables were put underground for the winter.

And so every so often you'd be sent out with a bag or a

bucket go, I need some potatoes.

Go fill up the, you'd have to go out there and like

climb down.

I think there was a ladder, if I remember, into the dirt.

Hole in the ground where all there was a pile of potatoes and a pile of

carrots and they were just underground.

And so we'd go and get them and And my mom had two.

I always say my mom, because she did all the cooking and it was

the garden was like her thing.

Although my dad was also obviously, put to work in it as well, but

they had two large chest freezers.

In the basement in our utility room.

And so they were packed.

Like we'd be shelling peas for days to bag 'em all up and freeze

'em for the winter and I don't know, corn, cauliflower, broccoli.

I don't know.

My mom could grow all the things and it was a lot of work.

But then, obviously we went to the grocery store.

We were not living remotely.

We lived, seven kilometers from town.

So close by, went to the grocery store, just, like anybody else.

But I don't remember really shopping the produce section a whole bunch

Now your produce was probably a lot nicer than what you would get in the grocery

stores today anyway, or back then because, it was done because you, you wanted to

do it or your parents wanted to do it.

So it was a different kind of love and care that went into.

To growing, food that they could feed their family with, I would imagine,

Yeah, and I feel like, as an adult, so then I, left home after high school and

I start doing my own grocery shopping, and I feel like I had a good handle on

grocery shopping the rest of the store

Then I I had no, no concept of what produce costs.

I didn't really know how to choose produce.

I was buying, it was like a whole new thing to learn.

I was like, mom, you didn't prepare me for how to shop for vegetables,

to this day I still do not know how to select a steak.

I just don't buy beef then, you know, other than burgers.

'cause I just don't know how to do it.

So it's one of those things.

I totally agree.

It's our parents don't always teach us how to shop the grocery store, but then

they show us how to do everything else.

or they show us how to shop for the things they like to shop for, right?

And then you get out on your own and you're like, oh, but I actually want to

go check out that section over there.

Or maybe you didn't have that Asian section or the Middle Eastern section, or,

I mean, we didn't have that kind of stuff.

In a small town, so it's been fun as an adult to explore

all the things that you like.

You were, didn't even know were out there.

But Erin, you have a, different type of, you grew up more as a city girl.

Yeah, I grew up in the city.

We would go away and camp on the weekends.

And that's that's what I loved.

I loved being outside around a fire.

It was never anything super fantastic that we would cook, but just to

cook around and over a fire and

Do you find that the food that you've cooked over the fire, while camping are

different than the meals that you might.

Actually have with family in a regular house kitchen.

We, did camp for 43 days,

Ooh.

and that was a long stretch.

We were just car camping out of our tents.

It wasn't good God in the back country or anything like that, but you get

pretty comfortable just cooking what you would regularly cook stews,

So not much different.

It's just, a matter of the time, probably the time and the preparation

that it takes to do, which is a little different because you don't have.

Well, you don't have the dishwasher

I don't have, a

dishwasher anyway,

Okay.

All right.

but,

that.

No, she, she likes it that way.

She's, she prefers she doesn't have a microwave or a dishwasher.

Probably some other things too that.

I mean, my favorite thing to come back home to was having a

washing machine, because after 42

days of washing your own clothes and everybody else's,

that, that's enough for me.

Yeah.

Dirty underwear,

to, to cook outside and all the time, I don't know.

It's, if you make it simple, it's not so hard.

Keep it simple.

I mean, you're not doing any long cooks.

I missed not baking bread like a loaf of bread ' cause I have a consistent

loaf of bread that I like to bake.

But you know, once you get used to it, it's amazing how fast and simple

you can make things without it being too complicated and just kind of

washing the dishes as you go because things take a little bit more time.

You do it in stages and.

I don't know.

There's nothing else to worry about.

It's only, you only have to worry about what you're cooking.

What am I going to eat today?

How do I want to eat?

are we gonna hike somewhere?

Are we gonna go do something?

What food do I need?

And those are your, only concerns.

You can

just, and be outside.

That's, I think, the best part of, of camping or, or being outdoors, is all

you're worried about is just what you need to do in a day to keep yourself fed.

I find that when we go camping, it's the only time I

actually effectively meal plan.

Really?

Some people are very good at like planning for the week and what

are they going to eat every day, and then shopping accordingly.

I fly by the seat of my pants almost every single day for.

Every meal.

And it's fine.

I've just accepted that that's who I am.

And I, I have tried to be better organized and I'm just not.

but you can't get away with that when you're at a campground.

Even if there happens to be a store somewhere nearby who wants

to do that when they're camping?

You don't wanna be going to the grocery store.

You want to have everything there that you need.

And so I actually do plan out every day, every meal.

prep things ahead, marinate meat, put it in the freezer, maybe vacuum

seal some stuff, or dry thing.

Dehydrate things for like, you know, trail mix or make up granola, make up pancake

mix, like, you know, pre-mix the dry stuff together so that you can just whip up some

pancakes and I actually really enjoy it.

I don't know why it's not part of my.

Life at home, but I really enjoy that.

Okay.

We're going camping in two weeks and I sit down with my notebook and I

start making lists, and I think Erin's actually got a spreadsheet that she uses.

No, you don't.

Somebody we know does.

I remember having a conversation

we know does.

I love making my notebook list.

I just completed mine for our camping

trip

this year, so,

did you?

so,

So

there's a new tradition.

It's not necessarily food related, but it, it is in a way good.

Is, it's part of the, the preparation of, and the anticipation of the

joy that's gonna happen afterwards.

And, I would say probably the, I'm not a camper, but.

I take my dog out on long walks in the morning in the cold.

It's, it's not as cold as Canada, but it was 41 down here this

morning, and that's pretty cold from Florida, so, 41 Fahrenheit at

Celsius, so that was pretty chilly.

But still, I get it.

it's sort of the, uh, the setup for what you wanna do later on

so that you can truly enjoy it.

and that's important.

It's part of the adventure of it.

I don't know.

It's part of the whole thing.

And when we did camp together and we did that big meal that was extra fun

because we were planning recipes, things we hadn't done before.

Erin had not made biscuits.

in the oven of the fire.

Before, we hadn't done a whole chicken, we hadn't done a steak that way.

We, you know, so we were like planning new, fun things.

And then we spent like the whole afternoon around that fire, our husbands

were joking that we looked like a cove of witches standing over the fire.

And it was kind of cold that day.

So we had hoods,

like hoodies on.

and blankets and

Yeah,

and we were around the fire, you know, poking at the coals and

whatever, and they were in the, at the next campsite watching us.

Like, what?

A bunch of weirdos over in there.

But it's fun.

It's part of it.

it was a coven of good dishes.

they didn't complain.

Once the food was served,

we'll

yeah.

I think that's great.

I love this the whole story of, the camping and the simplicity, yet the

amount of detail and planning that needs to go into it to make that time of life.

Special.

Whether it's from the early days that you had Heather of just remembering,

the root cellar and what was going on your mom planned and what had to go on

going forward and the root beer or the, cola sticks, the candies that happened.

I think that the simplest little things that we forget about.

Are the moments that we cherish the mo the most when we actually look back.

And the same thing for you, Erin.

the camping and the stories of what to do in a more, raw setting with your

son who is now learning to appreciate a different type relationship with

nature in the woods and, food.

So on that note.

wanna thank you both for being here with me today to talk about traditions.

You may not even know that you have them, but you really do, They don't

have to be, like I said, bringing out grandma's dish for Thanksgiving or

Christmas or any special holidays.

It can be just a special moment in a memory that makes you smile

and gives you a chance to pause and maybe even wash a dish or two

without the dishwasher at your side.

It is always good once in a while to get your hands in the dish water, right?

Yeah, it's a, it's a time to stop and reflect and I think that's important.

So on that note, thank you both for being here with me.

I appreciate your time, and your storytelling at Family

Tree Food and Stories.

So.

you for having us, Nancy.

It's been a joy.

Yes.

Thank you.

With that note, please remember as Sylvia and I always say that every meal

has a story and every story is a feast.

And that is certainly the case here with both Erin Walker and Heather Dyer.

I'm gonna put that one in a blooper.

Take care.

Be well, and we'll see you at the next table.

Bye-bye.